Interesting leaders debate on STV this evening. It looked like a few of the rascals from the Kelvingrove shindig might have sneaked into the audience, especially towards the end when things got a wee bit rowdy. Overall there was more heat than light, partly due to the leaders talking over each other a bit too much (some worse than others, no prizes for guessing who), partly due to Bernard Ponsonby heckling what answers there were (particularly with Eck it must be said) and partly due to party stooges packing out the audience.
Notable moments included Tavish calling Alex Salmond "clever and wily", as though those are bad qualities for a politician to have, Annabelle having a laugh at Tavish's expense as he got a single clap for one of his answers, an SNP supporter (I guess) barely suppressing his laughter as he brought up Iain Gray's infamous Subway tactical withdrawal and of course, Iain Gray's hilarious response to that jibe, saying that he was walking away to avoid "a pointless discussion" with those protesters at Glasgow Central. Oh dear, oh dear. Pointless discussions with the little people that pay your wages, eh Iain? Wow.
The best bit for me was finally hearing the bleedin' obvious articulated clearly: Scotland gets pocket money at the moment and there is absolutely nothing we can do to change the amount we get. How that can possibly be a healthy state of affairs for our country I cannot see. Scotland obviously has some big problems to solve, I don't think many folk would disagree with that. So why on Earth would we not want to have every possible lever at our disposal in order to tackle them?
The sight of various public sector employees demanding more money for their professions at a time when our pocket money is being cut beggars belief. I would have enjoyed seeing the nurse that complained of the SNP's "annihilation" of the NHS (the only public sector organisation that is promised more money remember!) explaining to the supply teacher why hospitals should be taking even more money away from our schools.
Anyway, a suitably feisty affair from Glasgow, my votes for which are:
Alex Salmond: 6/10 Not at his best, did well to stay calm under lots of pressure from irate audience and hectoring moderator.
Annabelle Goldie: 5/10 Seemed pretty comfortable throughout, didn't get much response from her answers though, nice gag at Tavish's expense.
Iain Gray: 5/10 until 5 mins from the end, was actually engaging quite well with the audience but in obvious difficulty on some points, then lost his rag due to the chuckling Subway joker and insulted each and every one of the electorate with their "pointless" views 2/10.
Tavish Scott: 3/10 He seemed to me to be talking more quickly than usual, perhaps he was affected by the excitable atmosphere in the hall? I sort of gave up listening to him as a result though.
Showing posts with label election debate. Show all posts
Showing posts with label election debate. Show all posts
Tuesday, 3 May 2011
Sunday, 25 April 2010
Sky News Scotland Debate - live text
12:02pm (it's definitely pm now, right...?) Overall I enjoyed this much more than the UK debates, much more vim and vigour about the whole thing, and the audience seemed a lot more clued up than the Glasgow one, so to the scores...
Edinburgh 1 - 0 Glasgow
Murphy: 5/10 Had some decent lines but overall came across as antagonistic, patronising and occasionally quite nasty. That daggers look at Carmichael revealed the true character of the man.
Salmond: 7/10 Not at his best, and Murphy did get to him with the line about being in his bed (Salmond in Salmond's bed that is, just to be clear) during the minimum wage vote. But as comfortable as ever in front of an audience and made lots of good points.
Mundell: 5/10 Also had his moments, but for the love of God smile now and then man! He doesn't seem to enjoy himself in these events, and you just know he was the unpopular kid at school who had a hell of a time, and now thinks he'll show them all!
Carmichael: 7/10 I would have given him a higher score but for his slightly weak closing speech. But he spoke well overall.
Thandie Newton: 9/10 Highlight of the 90 minutes, but one mark knocked off for appearing so soon after Murphy.
12:00am (or is it pm? I'm never sure...) Aargh, it gets worse!! Now the foxy Irish Sky News weather girl is on. I'd better give the scores before I have a lie down...
11:57am That's it, they all shake hands and head off for a communal bath. Apologies for that last mental image. I think I was disturbed earlier in the proceedings when we went from Jim Murphy's iguanadon-like visage to the fair Thandie Newton in an advert in the space of 3 seconds. The juxtaposition obviously overloaded a few neurons.
11:54am Carmichael: an exciting election this time. He's not looking at the camera though. Reading his script a bit too obviously for my liking. Halfway through he remembers to address the viewers at home.
11:53am Mundell: this election is about the future, British election, Britain, Rule Britannia! The Tories have the policies to tackle the real issues. Don't leave the choice to Alex Salmond or the Lib Dems, choose the government yourselves.
11:52am Murphy claims the election is a choice between Cameron and Brown for PM - clearly he doesn't subscribe to Clegg-mania. Derisory laughs from the audience!
11:51am Closing speeches. Salmond: haven't covered spending cuts in this debate yet. We should cut the things that don't matter to protect the things that do. SNP are cutting 1/4 of the quangoes (quangos?) apparently. Way to tackle a budget deficit is to grow the economy. We'll badly need local and national champions for Scotland in the next parliament.
11:49am Salmond: given the financial pressures, how we can justify £5 billion on ID cards that won't stop crime? Carmichael points out the shifting reasons for the ID cards that have been presented over the years.
11:48am Carmichael was a procurator fiscal depute apparently. He had a real job?! Heavens above, no wonder he comes across well and sounds like he's from the real world.
11:46am Salmond: if you want people to trust your security measures, don't abuse the ones we've already been subjected to.
11:44am Mundell raises the spectre of the 90-odd year old Labour member who was held under anti-terrorism laws at the Labour conference for the crime of heckling. Carmichael: when we restrict our freedoms we do the terrorists' job for them.
11:42am Murphy: as science has progressed the DNA database has become very useful. Criminals are apparently more desperate than ever before. Wonder how he measures that?
11:41am Salmond: ID cards are not an answer to terrorism or crime, more police on the streets are needed.
11:40am Final question: erosion of civil liberties over the last 13 years. How would you stop this erosion?
11:38am Murphy repeats the mantra: stronger together weaker apart, you can't base an economy on the volatile price of oil. Salmond responds that the Chancellor is planning on £40billion from Scotland's sector of the North Sea over the next 5 years. FAO Jim Murphy: nobody is suggesting the economy of an independent Scotland would be based on oil/gas. But it's a nice extra.
11:34am Salmond points out that we are a major oil-producing nation. Why are prices so high? Carmichael points out that Norway has the highest fuel prices in Europe.
11:32am Salmond welcomes Mundell's belated conversion to the cause of stabilising fuel duty.
11:28am Murphy seems to think Labour have been doing a good job on this front. Remarkable. Mundell understands this question he informs us. Does that mean he hasn't understood the rest? Carmichael: fuel duty keeps going up because the Labour government keeps putting it up. You won't get a litre of petrol for less than £1.30 in Orkney apparently. Salmond: average is £1.20 across Scotland, 70% of which is duty/VAT. SNP would modulate fuel tax increases by taking more money when oil prices went up. Says Labour and Tories opposed this, Murphy would have been better off in his bed on that vote! He's back!
11:27am Inaudible question from the audience. Why does the tax on fuel keep rising, says the lip-reading Adam Boulton.
11:26am Apparently when Murphy became Secretary of State Against Scotland he phoned his mum first, then Alex Salmond to say they had to work together. Perhaps regretting his aggressive attack on the minimum wage earlier.
11:25am Salmond comes back with 20,000 modern apprenticeships, attempting to recover his usual statesmanlike demeanour.
11:21am Murphy talks about introducing the minimum wage. Points out that Salmond went to his bed while the minimum wage was voted on. Murphy hammering the point home. Carmichael restores sanity. But that was a decent jab from Murphy (damn it!).
11:20am Youth unemployment next. Mundell rightly points out that Murphy and co have been in charge of the UK for 13 years, and also Salmond has been in government for 3 years.
11:17am How's it going so far? Overall Carmichael and Salmond are performing pretty well, Mundell has had his moments but doesn't seem to be enjoying himself much, Murphy looms sepulchral, stage left (I wonder if he insisted on standing on the left by the way...).
11:14am Consensus seems to be no. Quite right too, except where such decisions affect the pocket money going to Scotland and Wales I might add.
11:13am Should Scots/Welsh MPs vote on England-only matters?
11:12am Odd point from Mundell: Salmond and Brown didn't discuss the al Megrahi decision...but surely by the law of the land it was a decision for the Justice Secretary alone David.
11:10am Would Thomas Hamilton have been released from jail if he had survived and had been diagnosed with cancer?
11:07am Murphy took a beating on that question. Next up Adam Boulton asks about the controversy surrounding memos from the foreign office on the Pope's visit to the UK. Salmond: I'm on the B-list with Wayne Rooney apparently, the memos are juvenile. Mundell: Wayne Rooney has as many policies for Scotland as Alex Salmond - a good gag, albeit delivered with an air of spite etched all over his face. Murphy confesses he should have been at mass this morning. Just what I was thinking Jim...
11:05am Murphy resorts to the "good faith" defence. I'm reminded of a phrase involving the road to hell...
11:02am Murphy confesses to mistakes in post-war planning in Iraq. As Salmond points out, there were mistakes in the pre-war planning too. Carmichael calls Murphy up on his "rewriting of history". Murphy attempts to stare down Carmichael! If looks could kill (Murphy would be classified as WMD).
11:00am Mundell scores some points, highlighting the good job the forces do and how Labour have let them down.
10:57am Next Q: can the loss of life in Iraq/Afghanistan be justified in relation to the "war on terror" (copyright GW Bush, 2001)
10:54am Nice line from Salmond on Murphy and Mundell and their "gospel of despair" on why Scotland uniquely wouldn't have handled the economic downturn.
Slightly tetchy stuff so far, particularly an ugly shouting match between Murphy and Mundell (although I don't think they could do anything together which wouldn't be described as ugly).
10:48am Q2 How would an independent Scotland have coped with the economic crash? Salmond: fine, just like other countries. Murphy: I don't want us to be like Ireland. Mundell: we're much better off in Britain.
10:45am The odd timing of the debate catches forfar-loon napping (literally). Already the ebst debate of the election thus far - it has ad breaks so I can make a cup of tea :o)
Edinburgh 1 - 0 Glasgow
Murphy: 5/10 Had some decent lines but overall came across as antagonistic, patronising and occasionally quite nasty. That daggers look at Carmichael revealed the true character of the man.
Salmond: 7/10 Not at his best, and Murphy did get to him with the line about being in his bed (Salmond in Salmond's bed that is, just to be clear) during the minimum wage vote. But as comfortable as ever in front of an audience and made lots of good points.
Mundell: 5/10 Also had his moments, but for the love of God smile now and then man! He doesn't seem to enjoy himself in these events, and you just know he was the unpopular kid at school who had a hell of a time, and now thinks he'll show them all!
Carmichael: 7/10 I would have given him a higher score but for his slightly weak closing speech. But he spoke well overall.
Thandie Newton: 9/10 Highlight of the 90 minutes, but one mark knocked off for appearing so soon after Murphy.
12:00am (or is it pm? I'm never sure...) Aargh, it gets worse!! Now the foxy Irish Sky News weather girl is on. I'd better give the scores before I have a lie down...
11:57am That's it, they all shake hands and head off for a communal bath. Apologies for that last mental image. I think I was disturbed earlier in the proceedings when we went from Jim Murphy's iguanadon-like visage to the fair Thandie Newton in an advert in the space of 3 seconds. The juxtaposition obviously overloaded a few neurons.
11:54am Carmichael: an exciting election this time. He's not looking at the camera though. Reading his script a bit too obviously for my liking. Halfway through he remembers to address the viewers at home.
11:53am Mundell: this election is about the future, British election, Britain, Rule Britannia! The Tories have the policies to tackle the real issues. Don't leave the choice to Alex Salmond or the Lib Dems, choose the government yourselves.
11:52am Murphy claims the election is a choice between Cameron and Brown for PM - clearly he doesn't subscribe to Clegg-mania. Derisory laughs from the audience!
11:51am Closing speeches. Salmond: haven't covered spending cuts in this debate yet. We should cut the things that don't matter to protect the things that do. SNP are cutting 1/4 of the quangoes (quangos?) apparently. Way to tackle a budget deficit is to grow the economy. We'll badly need local and national champions for Scotland in the next parliament.
11:49am Salmond: given the financial pressures, how we can justify £5 billion on ID cards that won't stop crime? Carmichael points out the shifting reasons for the ID cards that have been presented over the years.
11:48am Carmichael was a procurator fiscal depute apparently. He had a real job?! Heavens above, no wonder he comes across well and sounds like he's from the real world.
11:46am Salmond: if you want people to trust your security measures, don't abuse the ones we've already been subjected to.
11:44am Mundell raises the spectre of the 90-odd year old Labour member who was held under anti-terrorism laws at the Labour conference for the crime of heckling. Carmichael: when we restrict our freedoms we do the terrorists' job for them.
11:42am Murphy: as science has progressed the DNA database has become very useful. Criminals are apparently more desperate than ever before. Wonder how he measures that?
11:41am Salmond: ID cards are not an answer to terrorism or crime, more police on the streets are needed.
11:40am Final question: erosion of civil liberties over the last 13 years. How would you stop this erosion?
11:38am Murphy repeats the mantra: stronger together weaker apart, you can't base an economy on the volatile price of oil. Salmond responds that the Chancellor is planning on £40billion from Scotland's sector of the North Sea over the next 5 years. FAO Jim Murphy: nobody is suggesting the economy of an independent Scotland would be based on oil/gas. But it's a nice extra.
11:34am Salmond points out that we are a major oil-producing nation. Why are prices so high? Carmichael points out that Norway has the highest fuel prices in Europe.
11:32am Salmond welcomes Mundell's belated conversion to the cause of stabilising fuel duty.
11:28am Murphy seems to think Labour have been doing a good job on this front. Remarkable. Mundell understands this question he informs us. Does that mean he hasn't understood the rest? Carmichael: fuel duty keeps going up because the Labour government keeps putting it up. You won't get a litre of petrol for less than £1.30 in Orkney apparently. Salmond: average is £1.20 across Scotland, 70% of which is duty/VAT. SNP would modulate fuel tax increases by taking more money when oil prices went up. Says Labour and Tories opposed this, Murphy would have been better off in his bed on that vote! He's back!
11:27am Inaudible question from the audience. Why does the tax on fuel keep rising, says the lip-reading Adam Boulton.
11:26am Apparently when Murphy became Secretary of State Against Scotland he phoned his mum first, then Alex Salmond to say they had to work together. Perhaps regretting his aggressive attack on the minimum wage earlier.
11:25am Salmond comes back with 20,000 modern apprenticeships, attempting to recover his usual statesmanlike demeanour.
11:21am Murphy talks about introducing the minimum wage. Points out that Salmond went to his bed while the minimum wage was voted on. Murphy hammering the point home. Carmichael restores sanity. But that was a decent jab from Murphy (damn it!).
11:20am Youth unemployment next. Mundell rightly points out that Murphy and co have been in charge of the UK for 13 years, and also Salmond has been in government for 3 years.
11:17am How's it going so far? Overall Carmichael and Salmond are performing pretty well, Mundell has had his moments but doesn't seem to be enjoying himself much, Murphy looms sepulchral, stage left (I wonder if he insisted on standing on the left by the way...).
11:14am Consensus seems to be no. Quite right too, except where such decisions affect the pocket money going to Scotland and Wales I might add.
11:13am Should Scots/Welsh MPs vote on England-only matters?
11:12am Odd point from Mundell: Salmond and Brown didn't discuss the al Megrahi decision...but surely by the law of the land it was a decision for the Justice Secretary alone David.
11:10am Would Thomas Hamilton have been released from jail if he had survived and had been diagnosed with cancer?
11:07am Murphy took a beating on that question. Next up Adam Boulton asks about the controversy surrounding memos from the foreign office on the Pope's visit to the UK. Salmond: I'm on the B-list with Wayne Rooney apparently, the memos are juvenile. Mundell: Wayne Rooney has as many policies for Scotland as Alex Salmond - a good gag, albeit delivered with an air of spite etched all over his face. Murphy confesses he should have been at mass this morning. Just what I was thinking Jim...
11:05am Murphy resorts to the "good faith" defence. I'm reminded of a phrase involving the road to hell...
11:02am Murphy confesses to mistakes in post-war planning in Iraq. As Salmond points out, there were mistakes in the pre-war planning too. Carmichael calls Murphy up on his "rewriting of history". Murphy attempts to stare down Carmichael! If looks could kill (Murphy would be classified as WMD).
11:00am Mundell scores some points, highlighting the good job the forces do and how Labour have let them down.
10:57am Next Q: can the loss of life in Iraq/Afghanistan be justified in relation to the "war on terror" (copyright GW Bush, 2001)
10:54am Nice line from Salmond on Murphy and Mundell and their "gospel of despair" on why Scotland uniquely wouldn't have handled the economic downturn.
Slightly tetchy stuff so far, particularly an ugly shouting match between Murphy and Mundell (although I don't think they could do anything together which wouldn't be described as ugly).
10:48am Q2 How would an independent Scotland have coped with the economic crash? Salmond: fine, just like other countries. Murphy: I don't want us to be like Ireland. Mundell: we're much better off in Britain.
10:45am The odd timing of the debate catches forfar-loon napping (literally). Already the ebst debate of the election thus far - it has ad breaks so I can make a cup of tea :o)
Thursday, 15 April 2010
1st Election Debate - Live Text
10:51pm Enough. The smug self-satisfaction of all involved is too much for me. Amidst all the talk about who won that the media will subject us to over the next few days, it's worth sparing a thought for the undisputed loser tonight, namely democracy.
10:43pm Looks like most pundits/polls are agreeing that Clegg won this round. Can't believe Kirsty Wark & Co on Newsnight. A "momentous" night for politics and television apparently. Well, for TV perhaps. It's not every day TV succeeds in stitching up the election after all.
10:20pm Well, the dust has now settled even as the Icelandic ash remains aloft. My overriding impression is that the whole debate was pretty feeble. The format seemed far too constrictive, and having the questions up front denied us the chance to see the leaders think on their feet, surely a useful trait in a future PM? I can't say I'm looking forward to the next ones to be honest, not sure there is much to be learned from watching Clegg, Cameron and Brown in this sort of format.
10:08pm Alasdair Stewart wraps things up, in a voice rather like the announcer at a boxing match. If this contest was anything though it was a Haye-Valuev snoozefest. Overall marks out of 10...
Clegg: 7/10 made a good impression, seemed comfortable throughout, struck a consensual note at the end on care for the elderly
Cameron: 5/10 not at his best, got embroiled in a few scraps with Brown at times which did neither of them any favours, seemed ill at ease at times
Brown: 6/10 patchy, clearly more comfortable with some subjects than others, a little bit of humour at the beginning, something the other two failed to inject into the proceedings - what were the odds on saying that beforehand?!
10:05pm Cameron: repeated attempts to frighten electorate about a Tory government. Hope over fear. Brown shakes his head. The idea that we have to keep wasting money to secure the recovery has been shown to be wrong. Values are as important as policy. If you work hard, I'll be behind you. Raise a family, I'll support you. If you're old and become ill, we'll be there for you. Britain is an amazing country. Needs a government with the right values. He will bring leadership (in which direction?).
10:03pm Brown: a great opportunity to exchange ideas this evening. We have to make a decision now about how we help the economic recovery. Can't repeat the mistakes of the 30's or 80's. As we reduce the deficit we have to protect funding for the police, healthcare and schools. Cameron can't give the guarantees that Labour can. He looks forward to the next debate. He'll be in a minority of 1 then.
10:02pm Clegg: thanks for sticking with us this evening! Not all politicians are the same. Reels off the names of the questioners - a bit naff. Labour and Tories have played pass the parcel with government for the last 60 years, making and breaking the same promises. Choose something different. Trust you instincts. Use the force.
10:00pm Closing statements, 90 seconds each...
09:58pm Brown: there are 6 million carers in this country. Numbers numbers. Didn't Cameron or Clegg just say 1 million? Too many stats to take in, especially while typing away.
09:57pm Cameron: 45000 families a year have to sell a home to pay for care. We should help people to have care in their homes for as long as possible. If carers stopped it would cost the country £50 billion a year apparently. They are Britain's unsung heroes. Clegg: echoes this. Give the 1 million carers a week off.
09:55pm Another reserved question. When will each party introduce a system to care for the elderly so they don't have to dispose of their assets? Cameron: unfair that people who have done the right thing all their lives, saving, buying a house, etc., have to dip into these assets to pay for care. Can't make all care free, but put aside £8000 when you're 65 and you won't have to sell your house to pay for care. Clegg: too big an issue for party politics, we should all come together to find a solution. Also need to look after carers - respite for at least one week a year. Brown: elderly should not have to choose between home and care. Get support at home free of charge. Free care in a residential home after 2 years.
09:50pm Cameron: I would love to stop tax on first £10000, but we can't afford it. Clegg promises to close loopholes for the rich to exploit. Brown will use NI increase to pay for healthcare and schools. One more question...
09:48pm Cameron: Tories will make an exception for the NHS. More old people you see. He'll keep increasing NHS spending. Brown: a lady wrote to him saying she wouldn't be alive if Labour hadn't improved speeds at which patients are seen. Cameron comes back with a specific example of a constituent who couldn't get cancer drugs. All a bit unseemly, using ill people for point scoring.
09:45pm Brown again, saying "David" won't give the same guarantees that Labour will. Cameron's eyes shift uneasily at this. One for the body language experts there. Cameron also bemoans the increase in NHS management. Clegg: judge the NHS by how we are cared for, not by numbers plucked from thin air. Attacks Tory tax breaks for millionaires.
09:42pm Brown: various patient guarantees mentioned. More convincing than he's sounded thus far. Cameron thanks the nurse for her service to the NHS, he'll never forget his experiences with the the NHS as they cared for his son. Surprisingly that didn't sound forced either, but rather genuine. Vague answer thereafter about improving the NHS. Clegg: tricky when money is tight. Priorities at the moment all wrong, too many managers. The maternity ward where his son was born last year is threatened with closure. A&Es are closing down. We're wasting money on computers and bureaucracy.
09:41pm Debates for Scotland, Wales and NI have now been plugged. Q from a hospital nurse: what are the parties visions for the future of healthcare in Britain? How to deal with the cost pressures from an ageing population (haven't populations always been ageing?)?
09:35pm Enough, it seems like there won't be any adverts. Am I the only one that didn't know that?! I'm off for that beer. They're waffling anyway so I won't miss much.
09:34pm Clegg wants us to use our know-how and manufacturing expertise to support our troops. Brown: why are we in Afghanistan? A chain of terror starting in the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. How can we get our troops home? Build up the Afghan army and police so they can take over. Cameron: a vital year in Afghanistan, difficult times lie ahead. Fundamental defence review needed of what we spend and what we do. Last review was a decade ago, despite the big events of these years. A good point. Then again the govt delayed the comprehensive spending review earlier this year, so clearly it's not their strong point.
09:32pm Brown adopts his "serious" voice. Claims to have increased spending on equipment. Has the gall to mention more helicopters for Afghanistan. Brass neck 10/10. Cameron also tries to connect with the audience (a la Clegg earlier) but somehow it seems a bit awkward. Sings the praises of the troops, but doesn't think we do enough for them. Frankly we shouldn't be in the situation we are. Had to fight to stop funding for TA being cut.
09:30pm Next Q: British troops dying frequently, underequipped and underpaid. Clegg: 8000 mandarins in the MoD, 2 admirals for every warship, etc. £100 billion to renew Trident. Change our priorities and we can treat our forces properly. Quite right.
09:28pm I can't take much more of this waffle. Too short a time for many of the answers. Alasdair Stewart barking "Nick Clegg", "David Cameron", "Gordon Brown" every 5 seconds doesn't help. It just all feels a bit frantic. I would have lined them up in 3 separate sound-proof booths. Any time they get dull or tedious a little window shuts, sealing them inside. At the end of the show lock the doors and leave them to it. I jest, can you imagine how the country would survive without the three of them...
09:27pm Clegg: we must come clean (how many women did he claim to have slept with?).
09:26pm Brown says the rest of the world agrees with him. Brown addresses the audience and nation: we can't take risks with the recovery, don't vote for the Tories, they smell. Or words to that effect. And they do smell by the way.
09:24pm Clegg says we can't solve all the problems by buying fewer paper clips in Whitehall. Banks should pay the tax payers back (yay!). Mythical savings and waste should not distract us. We should be open with the eletorate about where the savings will come from.
09:23pm Brown says we can't take £6 billion out of government spending. Equivalent to thousands of jobs being lost he says. Come off it Gordon, you can't seriously be saying we should continue the waste in government. Cut the waste, stop the tax says Cameron.
09:22pm Nice touch from Clegg, making sure he could see the questioner who was hidden behind a camera. Comfortable in the debate and personal connection, good stuff. Mentions Trident - we can't afford the £100 billion it will cost. Well said.
09:21pm Next question. How can we deal with debt without damaging economic growth? Cameron: save £6billion this year to avoid the NI increase aka tax on jobs aka economy killer. Mentions business leaders' support to back this up. Remove the dark cloud of the deficit, starting sooner rather than later.
09:20pm Brown says he is tough. Grrrr.
09:19pm Clegg has a nice line as Cameron and Brown paw each other. The more they talk the more they sound the same. Indeed. He brings it back to the question. Talks about class sizes as a problem. Make them sit closer together, that's the best solution I ever heard.
09:18pm A risk too far to let the Tories in says Brown. National insurance increases counters Cameron. Stop the waste in government now.
09:17pm Cameron talks about contemplation suites and massage rooms. Not sure if we was talking about Swedish schools again there.
09:16pm When are the adverts?!??! That beer is screaming my name.
09:14pm Cameron says we treat children like adults and teachers like children. Clegg breaks the rules of the debate asking Cameron a question. I demand the right to recall him!
09:12pm Brown: we must insist on the highest standards for every school. Continuing to invest is crucial. Cameron says good discipline is essential in schools. 17000 teachers attacked each year.
09:11pm What to do to improve education (England only). Brown wants better qualified teachers. Education to be part/full-time until the age of 18 (chronological or mental age I wonder?). We have to be able to compete globally. Cameron talks about opening young (steady now) minds. Education too bureaucratic - 4000 pages of info sent to each school each year. Cameron sent a child to a state school, I did not know that. Poor mite. Clegg compares English curriculum to its Swedish equivalent - 600 pages to 16 apparently. Parrots Cameron's 4000 pages (wasn't he listening?).
09:07pm Clegg thinks it a bit rich that Labour and Tories are suddenly conversions to his cause. Fair point.
09:05pm More talk about MPs getting kicked out without having to wait for a General Election. Right of recall seems to find consensus. Hurrah! Feel the love everyone.
09:03pm Cameron talks more about cutting the number of MPs (no doubt from Scotland/northern England I would think!). I think I'm going to need a beer to get through this, the smoothie just isn't cutting it. When are the ads?
08:59pm Pub owner asks - how to re-establish credibility of MPs with electorate. Clegg first: talks about flippers not taking responsibility, duck houses, capital gains tax, etc., etc. Need to be honest about what went wrong. Brown was "shocked" and "sickened" by what he saw. No really. Right of recall if your MP is misbehaving. A good idea I'll admit. Referendum on reform of the Lords and Commons (when Gordon, when?!). Cameron was angry too. He was even determined to clean up the moat apparently. Talks about pay cuts for MPs and ministers, cut Whitehall, cut quangos (everyone says that, when will it happen?). Clegg says Labour voted against LibDem proposals to sack dodgy MPs, Tories didn't vote. Betrayals both.
08:57pm Another reminder for viewers in Scotland and Wales to ignore virtually everything so far!
08:56pm Cameron invokes his magistrate mother. Brown has another pop at Cameron, mentioning those airbrushed posters. First time I've ever seen Brown give a genuine smile there! Cameron comes back with the huge debt Brown has led us into.
08:55pm Brown delivers the first gag - he appreciates the Tory posters showing him smiling, thanks Lord Ashcroft for paying for them.
08:52pm forfar-loon belatedly realises this might work better with updates at the top of the post. Much less scrolling all round :o)
08:50pm Question 2 about burglary occurring again and again. Cameron first up with a horror story about one ne'er-do-well and the short sentence he received. Clegg has a pop at ID cards - 3000 more polis on the streets if we'd spent the money on that instead he says. Mentions catching troublemakers when they're young. Brown sounds rather wooden, regurgitating a pre-canned answer (all the questions were submitted in advance). Brown talks about parental responsibility, injunctions against the police if you feel they have let you down. Cameron comes back with drugs (if only! That would liven things up a bit!).
08:48pm Cameron clearly checking on the text here, asks Clegg how you can restrict people to one region of the country. Clegg replies it works elsewhere. Will we see lots of scaremongering headlines about border controls at Berwick and Gretna? I think not.
08:45pm Still on the first question...they weren't kidding when they said this would be slow were they? Clegg name dropping Man City and Utd, perhaps looking to cover his bases in front of the vetted audience. Brown and Cameron jostling for airtime, cutting over each other, neither making much sense. Brown backs Clegg, talks about training young people to lower the need for immigration in future.
08:38pm First question on immigration from a retired toxicologist. Brown sounds somewhat self-important ("I this, I that"). Clegg and Cameron seem more at ease with the whole thing. Clegg has an idea about restricting immigrants to specific regions. Not sure about the practicalities of that...Brown mentions ID cards for foreign nationals so employers can tell if they are legal...wonder if he's had a word with Baroness Scotland (she's a reserved matter despite the name so fair game for this debate).
08:35pm Initial speeches, yawn. David Cameron sounds the most convincing, or at any rate the most comfortable. Even compliments Labour at one point.
08:30pm We're off! Or at least the missus is, scuttling away at the grim 90 mins ahead. Initial impressions: David Cameron standing rigid, arms by his side, gazing up and to his right at some distant prospect.
10:43pm Looks like most pundits/polls are agreeing that Clegg won this round. Can't believe Kirsty Wark & Co on Newsnight. A "momentous" night for politics and television apparently. Well, for TV perhaps. It's not every day TV succeeds in stitching up the election after all.
10:20pm Well, the dust has now settled even as the Icelandic ash remains aloft. My overriding impression is that the whole debate was pretty feeble. The format seemed far too constrictive, and having the questions up front denied us the chance to see the leaders think on their feet, surely a useful trait in a future PM? I can't say I'm looking forward to the next ones to be honest, not sure there is much to be learned from watching Clegg, Cameron and Brown in this sort of format.
10:08pm Alasdair Stewart wraps things up, in a voice rather like the announcer at a boxing match. If this contest was anything though it was a Haye-Valuev snoozefest. Overall marks out of 10...
Clegg: 7/10 made a good impression, seemed comfortable throughout, struck a consensual note at the end on care for the elderly
Cameron: 5/10 not at his best, got embroiled in a few scraps with Brown at times which did neither of them any favours, seemed ill at ease at times
Brown: 6/10 patchy, clearly more comfortable with some subjects than others, a little bit of humour at the beginning, something the other two failed to inject into the proceedings - what were the odds on saying that beforehand?!
10:05pm Cameron: repeated attempts to frighten electorate about a Tory government. Hope over fear. Brown shakes his head. The idea that we have to keep wasting money to secure the recovery has been shown to be wrong. Values are as important as policy. If you work hard, I'll be behind you. Raise a family, I'll support you. If you're old and become ill, we'll be there for you. Britain is an amazing country. Needs a government with the right values. He will bring leadership (in which direction?).
10:03pm Brown: a great opportunity to exchange ideas this evening. We have to make a decision now about how we help the economic recovery. Can't repeat the mistakes of the 30's or 80's. As we reduce the deficit we have to protect funding for the police, healthcare and schools. Cameron can't give the guarantees that Labour can. He looks forward to the next debate. He'll be in a minority of 1 then.
10:02pm Clegg: thanks for sticking with us this evening! Not all politicians are the same. Reels off the names of the questioners - a bit naff. Labour and Tories have played pass the parcel with government for the last 60 years, making and breaking the same promises. Choose something different. Trust you instincts. Use the force.
10:00pm Closing statements, 90 seconds each...
09:58pm Brown: there are 6 million carers in this country. Numbers numbers. Didn't Cameron or Clegg just say 1 million? Too many stats to take in, especially while typing away.
09:57pm Cameron: 45000 families a year have to sell a home to pay for care. We should help people to have care in their homes for as long as possible. If carers stopped it would cost the country £50 billion a year apparently. They are Britain's unsung heroes. Clegg: echoes this. Give the 1 million carers a week off.
09:55pm Another reserved question. When will each party introduce a system to care for the elderly so they don't have to dispose of their assets? Cameron: unfair that people who have done the right thing all their lives, saving, buying a house, etc., have to dip into these assets to pay for care. Can't make all care free, but put aside £8000 when you're 65 and you won't have to sell your house to pay for care. Clegg: too big an issue for party politics, we should all come together to find a solution. Also need to look after carers - respite for at least one week a year. Brown: elderly should not have to choose between home and care. Get support at home free of charge. Free care in a residential home after 2 years.
09:50pm Cameron: I would love to stop tax on first £10000, but we can't afford it. Clegg promises to close loopholes for the rich to exploit. Brown will use NI increase to pay for healthcare and schools. One more question...
09:48pm Cameron: Tories will make an exception for the NHS. More old people you see. He'll keep increasing NHS spending. Brown: a lady wrote to him saying she wouldn't be alive if Labour hadn't improved speeds at which patients are seen. Cameron comes back with a specific example of a constituent who couldn't get cancer drugs. All a bit unseemly, using ill people for point scoring.
09:45pm Brown again, saying "David" won't give the same guarantees that Labour will. Cameron's eyes shift uneasily at this. One for the body language experts there. Cameron also bemoans the increase in NHS management. Clegg: judge the NHS by how we are cared for, not by numbers plucked from thin air. Attacks Tory tax breaks for millionaires.
09:42pm Brown: various patient guarantees mentioned. More convincing than he's sounded thus far. Cameron thanks the nurse for her service to the NHS, he'll never forget his experiences with the the NHS as they cared for his son. Surprisingly that didn't sound forced either, but rather genuine. Vague answer thereafter about improving the NHS. Clegg: tricky when money is tight. Priorities at the moment all wrong, too many managers. The maternity ward where his son was born last year is threatened with closure. A&Es are closing down. We're wasting money on computers and bureaucracy.
09:41pm Debates for Scotland, Wales and NI have now been plugged. Q from a hospital nurse: what are the parties visions for the future of healthcare in Britain? How to deal with the cost pressures from an ageing population (haven't populations always been ageing?)?
09:35pm Enough, it seems like there won't be any adverts. Am I the only one that didn't know that?! I'm off for that beer. They're waffling anyway so I won't miss much.
09:34pm Clegg wants us to use our know-how and manufacturing expertise to support our troops. Brown: why are we in Afghanistan? A chain of terror starting in the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. How can we get our troops home? Build up the Afghan army and police so they can take over. Cameron: a vital year in Afghanistan, difficult times lie ahead. Fundamental defence review needed of what we spend and what we do. Last review was a decade ago, despite the big events of these years. A good point. Then again the govt delayed the comprehensive spending review earlier this year, so clearly it's not their strong point.
09:32pm Brown adopts his "serious" voice. Claims to have increased spending on equipment. Has the gall to mention more helicopters for Afghanistan. Brass neck 10/10. Cameron also tries to connect with the audience (a la Clegg earlier) but somehow it seems a bit awkward. Sings the praises of the troops, but doesn't think we do enough for them. Frankly we shouldn't be in the situation we are. Had to fight to stop funding for TA being cut.
09:30pm Next Q: British troops dying frequently, underequipped and underpaid. Clegg: 8000 mandarins in the MoD, 2 admirals for every warship, etc. £100 billion to renew Trident. Change our priorities and we can treat our forces properly. Quite right.
09:28pm I can't take much more of this waffle. Too short a time for many of the answers. Alasdair Stewart barking "Nick Clegg", "David Cameron", "Gordon Brown" every 5 seconds doesn't help. It just all feels a bit frantic. I would have lined them up in 3 separate sound-proof booths. Any time they get dull or tedious a little window shuts, sealing them inside. At the end of the show lock the doors and leave them to it. I jest, can you imagine how the country would survive without the three of them...
09:27pm Clegg: we must come clean (how many women did he claim to have slept with?).
09:26pm Brown says the rest of the world agrees with him. Brown addresses the audience and nation: we can't take risks with the recovery, don't vote for the Tories, they smell. Or words to that effect. And they do smell by the way.
09:24pm Clegg says we can't solve all the problems by buying fewer paper clips in Whitehall. Banks should pay the tax payers back (yay!). Mythical savings and waste should not distract us. We should be open with the eletorate about where the savings will come from.
09:23pm Brown says we can't take £6 billion out of government spending. Equivalent to thousands of jobs being lost he says. Come off it Gordon, you can't seriously be saying we should continue the waste in government. Cut the waste, stop the tax says Cameron.
09:22pm Nice touch from Clegg, making sure he could see the questioner who was hidden behind a camera. Comfortable in the debate and personal connection, good stuff. Mentions Trident - we can't afford the £100 billion it will cost. Well said.
09:21pm Next question. How can we deal with debt without damaging economic growth? Cameron: save £6billion this year to avoid the NI increase aka tax on jobs aka economy killer. Mentions business leaders' support to back this up. Remove the dark cloud of the deficit, starting sooner rather than later.
09:20pm Brown says he is tough. Grrrr.
09:19pm Clegg has a nice line as Cameron and Brown paw each other. The more they talk the more they sound the same. Indeed. He brings it back to the question. Talks about class sizes as a problem. Make them sit closer together, that's the best solution I ever heard.
09:18pm A risk too far to let the Tories in says Brown. National insurance increases counters Cameron. Stop the waste in government now.
09:17pm Cameron talks about contemplation suites and massage rooms. Not sure if we was talking about Swedish schools again there.
09:16pm When are the adverts?!??! That beer is screaming my name.
09:14pm Cameron says we treat children like adults and teachers like children. Clegg breaks the rules of the debate asking Cameron a question. I demand the right to recall him!
09:12pm Brown: we must insist on the highest standards for every school. Continuing to invest is crucial. Cameron says good discipline is essential in schools. 17000 teachers attacked each year.
09:11pm What to do to improve education (England only). Brown wants better qualified teachers. Education to be part/full-time until the age of 18 (chronological or mental age I wonder?). We have to be able to compete globally. Cameron talks about opening young (steady now) minds. Education too bureaucratic - 4000 pages of info sent to each school each year. Cameron sent a child to a state school, I did not know that. Poor mite. Clegg compares English curriculum to its Swedish equivalent - 600 pages to 16 apparently. Parrots Cameron's 4000 pages (wasn't he listening?).
09:07pm Clegg thinks it a bit rich that Labour and Tories are suddenly conversions to his cause. Fair point.
09:05pm More talk about MPs getting kicked out without having to wait for a General Election. Right of recall seems to find consensus. Hurrah! Feel the love everyone.
09:03pm Cameron talks more about cutting the number of MPs (no doubt from Scotland/northern England I would think!). I think I'm going to need a beer to get through this, the smoothie just isn't cutting it. When are the ads?
08:59pm Pub owner asks - how to re-establish credibility of MPs with electorate. Clegg first: talks about flippers not taking responsibility, duck houses, capital gains tax, etc., etc. Need to be honest about what went wrong. Brown was "shocked" and "sickened" by what he saw. No really. Right of recall if your MP is misbehaving. A good idea I'll admit. Referendum on reform of the Lords and Commons (when Gordon, when?!). Cameron was angry too. He was even determined to clean up the moat apparently. Talks about pay cuts for MPs and ministers, cut Whitehall, cut quangos (everyone says that, when will it happen?). Clegg says Labour voted against LibDem proposals to sack dodgy MPs, Tories didn't vote. Betrayals both.
08:57pm Another reminder for viewers in Scotland and Wales to ignore virtually everything so far!
08:56pm Cameron invokes his magistrate mother. Brown has another pop at Cameron, mentioning those airbrushed posters. First time I've ever seen Brown give a genuine smile there! Cameron comes back with the huge debt Brown has led us into.
08:55pm Brown delivers the first gag - he appreciates the Tory posters showing him smiling, thanks Lord Ashcroft for paying for them.
08:52pm forfar-loon belatedly realises this might work better with updates at the top of the post. Much less scrolling all round :o)
08:50pm Question 2 about burglary occurring again and again. Cameron first up with a horror story about one ne'er-do-well and the short sentence he received. Clegg has a pop at ID cards - 3000 more polis on the streets if we'd spent the money on that instead he says. Mentions catching troublemakers when they're young. Brown sounds rather wooden, regurgitating a pre-canned answer (all the questions were submitted in advance). Brown talks about parental responsibility, injunctions against the police if you feel they have let you down. Cameron comes back with drugs (if only! That would liven things up a bit!).
08:48pm Cameron clearly checking on the text here, asks Clegg how you can restrict people to one region of the country. Clegg replies it works elsewhere. Will we see lots of scaremongering headlines about border controls at Berwick and Gretna? I think not.
08:45pm Still on the first question...they weren't kidding when they said this would be slow were they? Clegg name dropping Man City and Utd, perhaps looking to cover his bases in front of the vetted audience. Brown and Cameron jostling for airtime, cutting over each other, neither making much sense. Brown backs Clegg, talks about training young people to lower the need for immigration in future.
08:38pm First question on immigration from a retired toxicologist. Brown sounds somewhat self-important ("I this, I that"). Clegg and Cameron seem more at ease with the whole thing. Clegg has an idea about restricting immigrants to specific regions. Not sure about the practicalities of that...Brown mentions ID cards for foreign nationals so employers can tell if they are legal...wonder if he's had a word with Baroness Scotland (she's a reserved matter despite the name so fair game for this debate).
08:35pm Initial speeches, yawn. David Cameron sounds the most convincing, or at any rate the most comfortable. Even compliments Labour at one point.
08:30pm We're off! Or at least the missus is, scuttling away at the grim 90 mins ahead. Initial impressions: David Cameron standing rigid, arms by his side, gazing up and to his right at some distant prospect.
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